Great points. The church has suffered for many decades by promoting the false view of congregationalism in that we position our churches to think that the congregation is the final authority in the church to the point that most members think of their membership only in terms of voting and making sure things are done to their "liking." Scripture focuses on having a plurality of biblically qualified Elders for a reason to oversee. When congregations are focused on administration and not edification and growing in righteousness the church suffers.
Absolutely. I like the phrase that gets used with a presidential cabinet, "serve at the pleasure of the President." Elders "serve at the pleasure" of God, not the congregation.
And I can always tell when I am discussing it with someone who cares what Scripture says and who does not. Those who only care about their power will say something like, "Oh, I guess you just think Pastors should be dictators and we should just blindly obey!" What they are actually saying it, "I like being a congregational dictator and do not want to give up my power. So, I am going to create a reason for people to fear you."
I have found that many elders are put in place as a “reward” for longevity in the church. Some are good business men, yet that will not make them a good shepherd. It has also become more difficult to find men who desire to be elders because of critical people within the congregation. A good combination of elders/deacons/preacher(s)/servants is rare, yet extremely effective. We don’t need uber-talented people, we just need people who are led by the scriptures who are willing to submit to the word of God.
Exactly right. This is an office that needs year of preparation after a man is identified as a potential candidate, rather than appointment by default.
It is not an easy assignment being an elder. If you serve and still have a job or children at home, it is even more difficult.
Unless elders are committed to invest TIME and meet regularly “Houston, we have a problem.”
Why do preachers lead? There may be several reasons. One is simple. Elders have deferred to them.
Some things really do need to change. “Unless things change, they’re likely to remain the same.” Because, “the more we do of what we are doing the more we will get what we got.”
Is it possible that congregations/elders raise up men of like culture. Get along – go along. Change may require rocking the boat.
I agree in theory. I'm clergy in the PC(USA) and our polity relies heavily on elders. My experience is that we don't have the "quality" of elders that we had 50 years ago. Many don't have the scriptural knowledge, the organizational understanding, or the spare time. We are in such desperate need that I once found myself in deep trouble for suggesting that church leaders needed to be Christian! We need to equip, equip, equip.
One challenge that exists which impacts the proposed solution is the lack of scripturally qualified men in the declining congregations - or more accurately stated, an abundance of spiritually minded men who are disqualified.
The process of establishing elders is often a long term process (rightly so in most cases), so will required a steadfast commitment by those involved.
That's definitely an issue. I won't be surprised if we end up with a number of congregations with men who cannot be elders, but who spiritually have much to offer. That will be difficult to balance what level of influence they have.
That's a fascinating observation. To be honest, I think the last 70 years or so will probably be seen as a historical outlier in that many people are now over-educated to some degree. Maybe if that swings back, distinguishing an eldership might get easier.
I am taken aback by the urgency that you place on church growth as if church growth has anything to do with salvation. The church is not for the unsaved but for the saved. Christ tells in Matthew 16:18 that He will build His church and the gates of hell will not prevail against it. There will not be one more person or one less person in His church when He returns than what He intended. No one will be lost. In John 6:39 He tells us that of all that is given Him by Father, not one will be lost.
I would start writing articles to make sure that pastors minister to the believers that are entrusted to them and that they are ‘making disciples’ as we are commanded by Christ (Matthew 28:19) and make sure they are becoming disciples as they should be and not just non-believing pew markers in our churches.
A new strategy or a new program will not cause the church to grow in the way Christ intends. A Church full of non-believers is not a church.
Great points. The church has suffered for many decades by promoting the false view of congregationalism in that we position our churches to think that the congregation is the final authority in the church to the point that most members think of their membership only in terms of voting and making sure things are done to their "liking." Scripture focuses on having a plurality of biblically qualified Elders for a reason to oversee. When congregations are focused on administration and not edification and growing in righteousness the church suffers.
Absolutely. I like the phrase that gets used with a presidential cabinet, "serve at the pleasure of the President." Elders "serve at the pleasure" of God, not the congregation.
And I can always tell when I am discussing it with someone who cares what Scripture says and who does not. Those who only care about their power will say something like, "Oh, I guess you just think Pastors should be dictators and we should just blindly obey!" What they are actually saying it, "I like being a congregational dictator and do not want to give up my power. So, I am going to create a reason for people to fear you."
I have found that many elders are put in place as a “reward” for longevity in the church. Some are good business men, yet that will not make them a good shepherd. It has also become more difficult to find men who desire to be elders because of critical people within the congregation. A good combination of elders/deacons/preacher(s)/servants is rare, yet extremely effective. We don’t need uber-talented people, we just need people who are led by the scriptures who are willing to submit to the word of God.
Exactly right. This is an office that needs year of preparation after a man is identified as a potential candidate, rather than appointment by default.
Well Said!
It is not an easy assignment being an elder. If you serve and still have a job or children at home, it is even more difficult.
Unless elders are committed to invest TIME and meet regularly “Houston, we have a problem.”
Why do preachers lead? There may be several reasons. One is simple. Elders have deferred to them.
Some things really do need to change. “Unless things change, they’re likely to remain the same.” Because, “the more we do of what we are doing the more we will get what we got.”
Is it possible that congregations/elders raise up men of like culture. Get along – go along. Change may require rocking the boat.
I agree in theory. I'm clergy in the PC(USA) and our polity relies heavily on elders. My experience is that we don't have the "quality" of elders that we had 50 years ago. Many don't have the scriptural knowledge, the organizational understanding, or the spare time. We are in such desperate need that I once found myself in deep trouble for suggesting that church leaders needed to be Christian! We need to equip, equip, equip.
Great read, good points to consider.
One challenge that exists which impacts the proposed solution is the lack of scripturally qualified men in the declining congregations - or more accurately stated, an abundance of spiritually minded men who are disqualified.
The process of establishing elders is often a long term process (rightly so in most cases), so will required a steadfast commitment by those involved.
That's definitely an issue. I won't be surprised if we end up with a number of congregations with men who cannot be elders, but who spiritually have much to offer. That will be difficult to balance what level of influence they have.
Related problem: Given the decline in reading, how will the future church develop leaders who are sufficiently knowledgeable in the Bible?
That's a fascinating observation. To be honest, I think the last 70 years or so will probably be seen as a historical outlier in that many people are now over-educated to some degree. Maybe if that swings back, distinguishing an eldership might get easier.
I am taken aback by the urgency that you place on church growth as if church growth has anything to do with salvation. The church is not for the unsaved but for the saved. Christ tells in Matthew 16:18 that He will build His church and the gates of hell will not prevail against it. There will not be one more person or one less person in His church when He returns than what He intended. No one will be lost. In John 6:39 He tells us that of all that is given Him by Father, not one will be lost.
I would start writing articles to make sure that pastors minister to the believers that are entrusted to them and that they are ‘making disciples’ as we are commanded by Christ (Matthew 28:19) and make sure they are becoming disciples as they should be and not just non-believing pew markers in our churches.
A new strategy or a new program will not cause the church to grow in the way Christ intends. A Church full of non-believers is not a church.
Where did I even once talk about church growth - much less "place urgency" on it?