I appreciate your spiritual courage, Jack. My family has suffered from doing what the bible teaches, and having leaders punish us for doing so.
A concern I have is that many congregations appoint women as ministry leaders. They serve with as much or more authority than male deacons. They do not have to meet any biblical standards and are at times single women. Because they are not called Deacons the leaders say they are not abusing scripture. Yet in practice they are. I found out that to bring it up or talk to the female ministry leaders about biblical concerns brings immediate condemnation. Many of these female leaders are family members of the elders, preachers and even the new full-time church bureaucrats called executive ministers. Apparently, the reason the early church failed is becasue they did not have female ministry leaders and executive ministers. I believe that Godly women are often the greatest encouragement to men to be Godly spiritually courageous men. Ungodly women in the church are the greatest hindrance to being an evangelistic spiritually mature congregation. Of course, the male leaders bare the absolute final responsibility for departing from the straight and narrow way.
It's incredible how bold some churches have gotten about it. In a weird sense, I almost see it as a good thing that they've admitted they want women in leadership. Not that it's good to have women in leadership, but that they're being honest about their bad intentions.
That way everyone around can see that they've gone astray, whereas when it's more subtle and behind-the-scenes it's harder to call it out.
You have nailed it Jack. This is the single most neglected teaching in the Bible. Women are vital to the operation of the body of Christ, but not with their hands up their husband’s back. Your courage to attack the elephant is admirable where lukewarmness is the mode of operation. This problem is everywhere I look.
The feminization of churches is why they are emptying out. Men see no reason to attend. It’s a waste of time. Hopefully the elephant Jack refers to is dealt with sooner than later.
The Church wouldn't be able to operate without the women. That being said, they sometimes need those gentle nudges, lest we men be trampled in the stampede. I'm currently nudging on our outreach efforts. The women tend to, in a motherly way, want to meet material needs, which is fine, but not at the expense of spiritual needs. Rarely does a met material need lead to a met spiritual need. So, I'm focusing on the latter, seeking intentional outreaches that have a better chance of that. Back to meeting material needs, the ladies have thrown out a big net, working with national ministries that went woke and non-biblical. I'm referring to the YWCA and the Salvation Army (yeah, look at their website concerning employment). The ladies' eyes have been opened and they're re-evaluating their net. And by taking the lead, I kept the pastor clear of any stampede.
I agree with what you're saying, and it's never said often enough.
The absolute reason that (I'll just say "progressives") have pushed for women to lead in the church -- is because they *know* it's opposite Christ's teachings.
I don't believe it's like teenagers rebelling against their parents, and it's not women on a power trip, it's much more sinister than that.
The people *driving* this (not necessarily the women who are taking positions of power) are actively going against the framework laid out by Christ. And they're doing it in hopes it will lead people away from Christ.
That's not to say that the women in positions of power don't enjoy the power -- but they're often not the ones *behind* the push, they just step up when the opportunity presents itself.
Another way to look at it. Positions of power -- attract people who want power.
Sure a lot of guys might think, "But my wife could do a good job." Just keep in mind, whatever woman takes a leadership position -- will *not* be like your wife, or any woman you might imagine would do a good job.
Positions of power will be filled with women who seek power, not those who could wield it best.
Thank you for this article, Jack. Feminism has impacted many churches, even the more conservative ones, in more subtle ways. And yes, sometimes when it is cloaked, it is more dangerous.
I wish women could see what a blessing our role really is and truthfully how much work we can do for the church without disobeying God's commands and how He set up the Church with Christ as the head. Proper governance is truly important and women really have to watch their own covetousness, because it is nothing less than that.
My first experience with some of this was a young Christian I would hear women quickly say there was infidelity in a divorcing couples marriage. There were quick to defend the woman. One day an old gospel preacher pointed out that these women were sometimes talking about infidelity that had occurred but was forgiven by the wife and they divorced later for something else. He said you can’t retroactively go back and apply a cause that was forgiven then do it for another cause not fornication and bring up the infidelity. If you are going to divorce for this cause sexual unfaithfulness then you must do it then. The women were a bit thrown but the old preacher was using what scripture plainly taught.
Great article, Jack! My family and I have suffered over this very issue you addressed. The unauthorized and unbiblical role of "elderette" in the church is underestimated.
I have seen this 'elephant' so often in churches. It is a HUGE problem (pardon the pun) and I am glad that you have the courage to raise it. Pastors, please take note!
I think you make a lot of good points. One question I have, is where do we have have an example in Scriptures of the elders hiring a preacher?
We do see when they picked deacons in Acts, the whole congregation was involved. They were told to pick the men.
My understanding is that they found consensus. Of course, the elders have to guide the process and have to veto any thing that is in error, but shouldn't the whole congregation have input? We see consensus also in Acts 15, not on what the truth was, the Holy Spirit determines that ---but on how to handle spreading the word of what was determined.
Consensus is hard and it is easier for the leadership to make decisions, but think of the spiritual value of working through decisions and finding the path that "seemed good to the apostles and the elders with the whole church" Acts 15:22
Sorry, I realize this is not what you're article was aimed at, just something I would enjoy seeing discussed.
No, it's a good question. Since this would be a second-generation church matter once the apostles were gone, we have to extrapolate a little bit.
That being the case, I think the question comes back to, who will give an account if he goes astray, and who will have to deal with it if he goes astray? I think Acts 20 indicates it will be the elders, so they should take input but ultimately it should be their decision.
Thanks for your answer, Jack. Definitely good points. I do have to admit that I struggle with the idea of 'hiring' a minister as what I see in Scriptures is support given to workers/ preachers and it doesn't seem to be an employer/ employee type of situation. Paul seemed to travel to different congregations and be somewhat of a 'free agent. ' I just haven't seen exactly what we have today in a bird preacher.
How much have we been influenced in this by our culture?
I appreciate your willingness to thunk critically about how we function. Enjoyed your book.
I definitely agree that our model of preacher employment probably isn’t what God had in mind. I think we need figures to do what Timothy and Titus were supposed to do. But I also believe at a certain point elders should be able to keep a church’s teaching and preaching functioning without hiring an outsider.
I appreciate your spiritual courage, Jack. My family has suffered from doing what the bible teaches, and having leaders punish us for doing so.
A concern I have is that many congregations appoint women as ministry leaders. They serve with as much or more authority than male deacons. They do not have to meet any biblical standards and are at times single women. Because they are not called Deacons the leaders say they are not abusing scripture. Yet in practice they are. I found out that to bring it up or talk to the female ministry leaders about biblical concerns brings immediate condemnation. Many of these female leaders are family members of the elders, preachers and even the new full-time church bureaucrats called executive ministers. Apparently, the reason the early church failed is becasue they did not have female ministry leaders and executive ministers. I believe that Godly women are often the greatest encouragement to men to be Godly spiritually courageous men. Ungodly women in the church are the greatest hindrance to being an evangelistic spiritually mature congregation. Of course, the male leaders bare the absolute final responsibility for departing from the straight and narrow way.
It's incredible how bold some churches have gotten about it. In a weird sense, I almost see it as a good thing that they've admitted they want women in leadership. Not that it's good to have women in leadership, but that they're being honest about their bad intentions.
That way everyone around can see that they've gone astray, whereas when it's more subtle and behind-the-scenes it's harder to call it out.
You have nailed it Jack. This is the single most neglected teaching in the Bible. Women are vital to the operation of the body of Christ, but not with their hands up their husband’s back. Your courage to attack the elephant is admirable where lukewarmness is the mode of operation. This problem is everywhere I look.
"Hands up their husband's back" is a great phrase. Great way to put it.
Did you just say this out loud? Cliques are a very big deal for women - you belong or you don't.
Their inner circles can do a lot of damage, that's for sure
The feminization of churches is why they are emptying out. Men see no reason to attend. It’s a waste of time. Hopefully the elephant Jack refers to is dealt with sooner than later.
The Church wouldn't be able to operate without the women. That being said, they sometimes need those gentle nudges, lest we men be trampled in the stampede. I'm currently nudging on our outreach efforts. The women tend to, in a motherly way, want to meet material needs, which is fine, but not at the expense of spiritual needs. Rarely does a met material need lead to a met spiritual need. So, I'm focusing on the latter, seeking intentional outreaches that have a better chance of that. Back to meeting material needs, the ladies have thrown out a big net, working with national ministries that went woke and non-biblical. I'm referring to the YWCA and the Salvation Army (yeah, look at their website concerning employment). The ladies' eyes have been opened and they're re-evaluating their net. And by taking the lead, I kept the pastor clear of any stampede.
Love this comment. Their intentions may be good, but that guidance to point it in the right direction is so important.
I agree with what you're saying, and it's never said often enough.
The absolute reason that (I'll just say "progressives") have pushed for women to lead in the church -- is because they *know* it's opposite Christ's teachings.
I don't believe it's like teenagers rebelling against their parents, and it's not women on a power trip, it's much more sinister than that.
The people *driving* this (not necessarily the women who are taking positions of power) are actively going against the framework laid out by Christ. And they're doing it in hopes it will lead people away from Christ.
That's not to say that the women in positions of power don't enjoy the power -- but they're often not the ones *behind* the push, they just step up when the opportunity presents itself.
Another way to look at it. Positions of power -- attract people who want power.
Sure a lot of guys might think, "But my wife could do a good job." Just keep in mind, whatever woman takes a leadership position -- will *not* be like your wife, or any woman you might imagine would do a good job.
Positions of power will be filled with women who seek power, not those who could wield it best.
It's always a recipe for disaster.
Interesting article.
Thank you for this article, Jack. Feminism has impacted many churches, even the more conservative ones, in more subtle ways. And yes, sometimes when it is cloaked, it is more dangerous.
I wish women could see what a blessing our role really is and truthfully how much work we can do for the church without disobeying God's commands and how He set up the Church with Christ as the head. Proper governance is truly important and women really have to watch their own covetousness, because it is nothing less than that.
100%!
My first experience with some of this was a young Christian I would hear women quickly say there was infidelity in a divorcing couples marriage. There were quick to defend the woman. One day an old gospel preacher pointed out that these women were sometimes talking about infidelity that had occurred but was forgiven by the wife and they divorced later for something else. He said you can’t retroactively go back and apply a cause that was forgiven then do it for another cause not fornication and bring up the infidelity. If you are going to divorce for this cause sexual unfaithfulness then you must do it then. The women were a bit thrown but the old preacher was using what scripture plainly taught.
Great article, Jack! My family and I have suffered over this very issue you addressed. The unauthorized and unbiblical role of "elderette" in the church is underestimated.
There are women on YouTube actively developing strategies, in the open, for indirectly controlling their churches. This post is timely.
Wow, I was not aware. Not great.
Check out @SheilaWrayGregoire on YouTube.
Just watched some. My jaw is on the floor. Judgment Day will not be kind to her.
A new one just dropped. These ladies are pied pipers leading the women (and our civilization) to the river bank…
https://youtu.be/4XACkpqep8w?si=lwN_sBCVRxYyWDp-
Awful.
I have seen this 'elephant' so often in churches. It is a HUGE problem (pardon the pun) and I am glad that you have the courage to raise it. Pastors, please take note!
I think you make a lot of good points. One question I have, is where do we have have an example in Scriptures of the elders hiring a preacher?
We do see when they picked deacons in Acts, the whole congregation was involved. They were told to pick the men.
My understanding is that they found consensus. Of course, the elders have to guide the process and have to veto any thing that is in error, but shouldn't the whole congregation have input? We see consensus also in Acts 15, not on what the truth was, the Holy Spirit determines that ---but on how to handle spreading the word of what was determined.
Consensus is hard and it is easier for the leadership to make decisions, but think of the spiritual value of working through decisions and finding the path that "seemed good to the apostles and the elders with the whole church" Acts 15:22
Sorry, I realize this is not what you're article was aimed at, just something I would enjoy seeing discussed.
No, it's a good question. Since this would be a second-generation church matter once the apostles were gone, we have to extrapolate a little bit.
That being the case, I think the question comes back to, who will give an account if he goes astray, and who will have to deal with it if he goes astray? I think Acts 20 indicates it will be the elders, so they should take input but ultimately it should be their decision.
Thanks for your answer, Jack. Definitely good points. I do have to admit that I struggle with the idea of 'hiring' a minister as what I see in Scriptures is support given to workers/ preachers and it doesn't seem to be an employer/ employee type of situation. Paul seemed to travel to different congregations and be somewhat of a 'free agent. ' I just haven't seen exactly what we have today in a bird preacher.
How much have we been influenced in this by our culture?
I appreciate your willingness to thunk critically about how we function. Enjoyed your book.
I definitely agree that our model of preacher employment probably isn’t what God had in mind. I think we need figures to do what Timothy and Titus were supposed to do. But I also believe at a certain point elders should be able to keep a church’s teaching and preaching functioning without hiring an outsider.
Supposed to say 'hired preacher'
Autocorrect. :)
😂
🤣🤣
If there were elephants in the church I probably would visit.