I think the unspoken difference here is that most of us approach politics pragmatically and even defensively -- how can I prevent the most harm from being done by government? -- whereas some Christians think that if you vote for someone you have given that politician your whole-hearted endorsement and are now morally responsible for any bad thing he does.
I don't think the latter perspective holds up under scrutiny, but it has to be addressed. Note that your discussion assumes the former perspective: do the most good and the least harm.
God recognizes those who are more evil than those who went before them: 1 Kings 16:30; 2 Kings 21:9; 2 Chronicles 33:9. I was a Desantis supporter. Upstanding guy with good policies. I will hold my nose and vote for President Trump, who is not an upstanding guy, but will still stand for (mostly) good policies. Far superior policies compared to: drag queen story time, baby murder, mocking "Jesus is Lord," mocking the Lord's Supper, inability to define what a woman is, rampant crime and *illegal* immigration, cost of living crisis (which directly impacts the principle found in 1 Tim. 5:8 making that much more difficult), race-based identity politics when the Bible says "there is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free, there is neither male nor female; for you are all one in Christ Jesus" (Gal. 3:28), radical feminism, endless wars (I'm not against a *JUST* war -- a war fought to defend the homeland or even another country if true atrocities are being committed, such as the Holocaust), corruption of the food supply and excessive reliance on medications (which Mr. Kennedy, oddly enough, is going to try to fix -- I don't agree with Mr. Kennedy on very many things but he is right about that part). There are many other reasons but this list is long enough why this Christian will be voting for President Trump come November 5th.
Society is, where we’re at, because too many have sat on their “blessed a$$urances”…
Salt and Light.
Salt acts as a temporary preservative, it's purpose is to slow decay. It’s absolutely useless if it remains in the shaker.
Light displaces darkness, it shines the brightest, in the darkest of places. Again, it’s intented use is to be broadcasted abroad, not just in personal closets.
Are you an Ambassador of Christ Jesus?
Show up and Represent Our Father's Kingdom 👑
Join in to save this nation from certain destruction, otherwise you've revealed yourself to be a part of The Problem…
TO NOT VOTE ➡️ IS A VOTE
Every idle word, thought and deed, you'll give an account for…
KH / TW ticket stands Against all that our Father's Kingdom represents on earth...
“According to surveys and voting records, about forty million Evangelical Christians do not vote. But wait - there’s more! In addition, there are another 15 million that are not even registered. That is a total of fifty-five million Christians who sit on the sidelines. That is fifty-five million Christians who are negligent in their responsibility as a citizen of our nation and as a “watchman” to their society. That is a voting block that has the potential to shape the direction of America!”
Doug Wilson has an analogy that always stuck with me:
You are tied up in the trunk of a car that is hurdling toward a cliff. One car is traveling at 80 mph and the other car is traveling at 50 mph. You get to cast a vote for which car you’re tied up in. Which would you choose?
Neither situation is ideal, but one obviously delays the worst case scenario and gives you more time to work toward a better solution.
It's not about clean hands, it's about yall making our votes cheap and the creation of tons of idols in politics.
Anyways, finish your question. Which Christian killer is the lesser of two evils? What verse says Christians should pick evil? I know one that says resist.
And you missed the whole point in your self-righteous indignation.
How about this: “I will have mercy and not judgement.”
You can accuse me of judging you by recognizing your self-righteousness for what it is, but you will have failed to recognize that within our own, we are called to speak truth.
No sermon is perfect. No allegory is complete. No illustration is without incongruity.
But, as my dad used to say: a wise man can learn from a fool, a fool learns from no one.
I think there is a problem with the trolley illustration. As Tony Stark would say, "your math is blowing my mind." 1) I'm not on the trolley, and I'm certainly not driving it. I got off after the Romney/Obama election. 2) 0 does not equal +1 or -1. In other words, you can't put my non-vote in one column or the other. It doesn't work like that and cannot. If it did, who's to say which column it should go under? I love the fact that both sides want to fight over 0s. Which side does my non-vote hurt/help the most? See, it doesn't work does it?
In the second place, that our votes are important is a truism in the US. That is why I'm not just going to pass it out to any Tom, DIck, or Harry who says they're gonna "Make America Great Again!" or "Forward!" or whatever. Candidates must earn my vote. No one in recent years has. That's as complicated as it gets. When Americans start putting forward better candidates I will start voting again, deal? This leads to another thought experiment... who says I'm not engaged in the political process? As we say in my house, if you want better candidates, you need a better electorate. I'm engaged, I'm just working on the back half of that statement. I'm trying to make a better electorate by means of the gospel. Not voting does not mean I'm doing nothing.
Just a “note”. In each of the scenarios given, and in the reality of life, the idea that NOT taking action somehow absolves you of responsibility is extremely illogical AND very unscriptural.
At BEST, doing nothing makes us either the Levite or the Priest in the parable of the Good Samaritan. The idea that doing nothing leaves us with “clean hands” is a lie from the pit of hell.
As Mordecai said to Esther, if we do nothing, God will bring deliverance to His people another way, but we will suffer both the evil we should have resisted, and will have sinned against Almighty God, who presented us with the opportunity to be His living representative in this world.
I have lived this. I am retired from law enforcement. I am former military. I have faced horrible decisions, and I am certain I have made decisions with which others would disagree. I have made decisions that I have lived to question.
But the thing that I will kneel before G-d and not regret: I acted in the knowledge I possessed, and I did not ignore the problem. I may have but one talent, others may have many more. But I have employed what I have to the best of my ability, and for the best outcomes for my lovely wife, my amazing sons, my lovely daughters-in-love, my awesome grandchildren, and everyone with whom I have crossed paths.
I know I have failed. I know there are people I have hurt. I beg their forgiveness.
I have also done all that I knew to help everyone I could, and will until my last breath is gone and my last heartbeat has stopped and the oxygen in my brain has been exhausted.
With that, I will pray for mercy, for myself and all within my reach.
I think the unspoken difference here is that most of us approach politics pragmatically and even defensively -- how can I prevent the most harm from being done by government? -- whereas some Christians think that if you vote for someone you have given that politician your whole-hearted endorsement and are now morally responsible for any bad thing he does.
I don't think the latter perspective holds up under scrutiny, but it has to be addressed. Note that your discussion assumes the former perspective: do the most good and the least harm.
You're right, but that's partly what I was getting at with the trolley illustration.
God recognizes those who are more evil than those who went before them: 1 Kings 16:30; 2 Kings 21:9; 2 Chronicles 33:9. I was a Desantis supporter. Upstanding guy with good policies. I will hold my nose and vote for President Trump, who is not an upstanding guy, but will still stand for (mostly) good policies. Far superior policies compared to: drag queen story time, baby murder, mocking "Jesus is Lord," mocking the Lord's Supper, inability to define what a woman is, rampant crime and *illegal* immigration, cost of living crisis (which directly impacts the principle found in 1 Tim. 5:8 making that much more difficult), race-based identity politics when the Bible says "there is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free, there is neither male nor female; for you are all one in Christ Jesus" (Gal. 3:28), radical feminism, endless wars (I'm not against a *JUST* war -- a war fought to defend the homeland or even another country if true atrocities are being committed, such as the Holocaust), corruption of the food supply and excessive reliance on medications (which Mr. Kennedy, oddly enough, is going to try to fix -- I don't agree with Mr. Kennedy on very many things but he is right about that part). There are many other reasons but this list is long enough why this Christian will be voting for President Trump come November 5th.
Amen and Amen 🙏
Society is, where we’re at, because too many have sat on their “blessed a$$urances”…
Salt and Light.
Salt acts as a temporary preservative, it's purpose is to slow decay. It’s absolutely useless if it remains in the shaker.
Light displaces darkness, it shines the brightest, in the darkest of places. Again, it’s intented use is to be broadcasted abroad, not just in personal closets.
Are you an Ambassador of Christ Jesus?
Show up and Represent Our Father's Kingdom 👑
Join in to save this nation from certain destruction, otherwise you've revealed yourself to be a part of The Problem…
TO NOT VOTE ➡️ IS A VOTE
Every idle word, thought and deed, you'll give an account for…
KH / TW ticket stands Against all that our Father's Kingdom represents on earth...
“According to surveys and voting records, about forty million Evangelical Christians do not vote. But wait - there’s more! In addition, there are another 15 million that are not even registered. That is a total of fifty-five million Christians who sit on the sidelines. That is fifty-five million Christians who are negligent in their responsibility as a citizen of our nation and as a “watchman” to their society. That is a voting block that has the potential to shape the direction of America!”
https://smalltownpastor.substack.com/p/bring-back-the-election-sermons?r=2bqsjo&triedRedirect=true
Great thoughts.
Doug Wilson has an analogy that always stuck with me:
You are tied up in the trunk of a car that is hurdling toward a cliff. One car is traveling at 80 mph and the other car is traveling at 50 mph. You get to cast a vote for which car you’re tied up in. Which would you choose?
Neither situation is ideal, but one obviously delays the worst case scenario and gives you more time to work toward a better solution.
That's a solid point. He's really good on this discussion (among a number of other ones).
It's not about clean hands, it's about yall making our votes cheap and the creation of tons of idols in politics.
Anyways, finish your question. Which Christian killer is the lesser of two evils? What verse says Christians should pick evil? I know one that says resist.
You started the article with no binaries then reduced the whole thing into a binary.
And you missed the whole point in your self-righteous indignation.
How about this: “I will have mercy and not judgement.”
You can accuse me of judging you by recognizing your self-righteousness for what it is, but you will have failed to recognize that within our own, we are called to speak truth.
No sermon is perfect. No allegory is complete. No illustration is without incongruity.
But, as my dad used to say: a wise man can learn from a fool, a fool learns from no one.
imho
I didn't judge them, that's literally what they said.
I think there is a problem with the trolley illustration. As Tony Stark would say, "your math is blowing my mind." 1) I'm not on the trolley, and I'm certainly not driving it. I got off after the Romney/Obama election. 2) 0 does not equal +1 or -1. In other words, you can't put my non-vote in one column or the other. It doesn't work like that and cannot. If it did, who's to say which column it should go under? I love the fact that both sides want to fight over 0s. Which side does my non-vote hurt/help the most? See, it doesn't work does it?
In the second place, that our votes are important is a truism in the US. That is why I'm not just going to pass it out to any Tom, DIck, or Harry who says they're gonna "Make America Great Again!" or "Forward!" or whatever. Candidates must earn my vote. No one in recent years has. That's as complicated as it gets. When Americans start putting forward better candidates I will start voting again, deal? This leads to another thought experiment... who says I'm not engaged in the political process? As we say in my house, if you want better candidates, you need a better electorate. I'm engaged, I'm just working on the back half of that statement. I'm trying to make a better electorate by means of the gospel. Not voting does not mean I'm doing nothing.
Thanks, Jack. I just got the Kindle edition of your book. I appreciate your work on this issue.
I find this helpful. I recently told my church that a question to ask is: "Which choice will bring the maximal good?"
Just a “note”. In each of the scenarios given, and in the reality of life, the idea that NOT taking action somehow absolves you of responsibility is extremely illogical AND very unscriptural.
At BEST, doing nothing makes us either the Levite or the Priest in the parable of the Good Samaritan. The idea that doing nothing leaves us with “clean hands” is a lie from the pit of hell.
As Mordecai said to Esther, if we do nothing, God will bring deliverance to His people another way, but we will suffer both the evil we should have resisted, and will have sinned against Almighty God, who presented us with the opportunity to be His living representative in this world.
I have lived this. I am retired from law enforcement. I am former military. I have faced horrible decisions, and I am certain I have made decisions with which others would disagree. I have made decisions that I have lived to question.
But the thing that I will kneel before G-d and not regret: I acted in the knowledge I possessed, and I did not ignore the problem. I may have but one talent, others may have many more. But I have employed what I have to the best of my ability, and for the best outcomes for my lovely wife, my amazing sons, my lovely daughters-in-love, my awesome grandchildren, and everyone with whom I have crossed paths.
I know I have failed. I know there are people I have hurt. I beg their forgiveness.
I have also done all that I knew to help everyone I could, and will until my last breath is gone and my last heartbeat has stopped and the oxygen in my brain has been exhausted.
With that, I will pray for mercy, for myself and all within my reach.
Bleasings!