Those are thoughts worth contemplating, Jack, thanks for bringing that up. My question would be how do you navigate challenges like church splits or just several families walking out over disagreements that are evident but never fully dealt with? If I become disgruntled over an issue all I have to do is change buildings. I don’t have to face my problem with brother or sister so and so. Never-mind sitting on the other side of the building, I can just drive across town. Well, not in Montana or South Dakota, but as long as I stay in the Bible Belt…
That's a tough question. Ideally, congregations would communicate better about those kinds of things. I actually knew of a situation where one church sent a member back to work things out, and it ended up going great.
Where does the New Testament tell us to gather “to worship”? Worship is daily as we sacrifice ourselves, desires etc et al
( Romans 12) a living sacrifice etc et al.
The assembly was for edification… build each other up to abide in Christ . God doesn’t need our one hour rituals to prove our worth or to give us a checkmark for doing all the prescribed things … ( the 5 acts of worship )… where did that even come from ???
Where is a “worship
Service” ever mentioned ?
Bottom line, God’s more interested in how we live our lives than a one hour a week check the boxes to “please Him”.
I run into this pedantry all the time. We can extrapolate it from the obvious implications of the NT text, and if that's not good enough, history backs up those extrapolations. The early church gathered to worship God together.
right on!!! I agree with everything you are saying!!!
- Yes, as we read in 1 Cor. 14, the assembly was for edification. we never see the word worship in that chapter.
- yes, I also feel it has become a 1 hour ritual and also wonder where this "5 acts of worship" came from - I hear it more and more and it's deeply troubling !!!
- yes, where is the phrase "worship service" in the Bible, I don't see it anywhere, but perhaps it's been passed down from Luther's "Gottesdienst" - God's service?
- yes, the one hour a week checkbox to please God is sad and unfortunately taught - I wrote an entire article about this on Romans 12:1 here : the Greek word Latreia is not a worship service or a weekly checkbox, it's a way of life!
But in a response to the main topic what pleases God, consider these 3 passages that tell us what is pleasing to God:
1. Romans 12:1 I urge you to present your bodies as a living sacrifice, holy and pleasing to God; this is your logical *priestly service* (latreia).
2. Romans 14:17-18 anyone who *serves* (douleuō) Christ in righteousness, peace and joy in the Holy Spirit is pleasing to God
3. Hebrews 12:28 let us *serve* (latreuo) God well-pleasingly, with reverence and fear.
the RSV Bible of 1946 replaced the words for serving God in Romans 12:1 and Hebrews 12:28 with worship! so sad! and many modern translations copied that. So how could the first century church believe that? of course, they didn't, they couldn't! and the word worship doesn't exist in the Greek or Hebrew anyhow. So now we have to choose - are we going with pre-1946 Bible translations or post-1946 Bible translations??? if we really want to be like the 1st century church, I hope we choose wisely :)
Your sections, "Worship is all-emcompasing" when we look at Romans 12, we see many activities that are not bound to be done in a building or a special "service." We should daily give our bodies as a service to God, serving others that we meet, and even our neighbors in their time of need. Verses one and two start us thinking, Think as the good Samaritan did. The other two passing by were intent on not missing a religious service (think our church service). God had more good thoughts about him, instead of those two making sure they were not late for the scheduled service. The Samaritan was worshiping in spirit and in truth. He had the correct attitude or spirit in what he was doing, and he was doing what Jesus would commend us for doing. Read the last section of Matthew chapter 25 and see what our judgment would be if we just depended on our church service to get us into heaven.
Looking at Romans 12:1, 2, we see that sometimes what we do outside of the assembly is more important. Look also at those who walked by the needy being helped by the Samaritan. Those walking by were headed to the "church building," but all he was doing was helping the needy person and skipping the assembly. Also, those being judged in Matt. chapter 25. These are things we should be doing each day as we have the opportunity. We worship God by our whole body every day of the week when we obey Jesus' commands with a sweet spirit or attitude. John 4. Worship in a sweet spirit, or attitude, and doing my truth.
Excellent, "preaching" thoughts!
Those are thoughts worth contemplating, Jack, thanks for bringing that up. My question would be how do you navigate challenges like church splits or just several families walking out over disagreements that are evident but never fully dealt with? If I become disgruntled over an issue all I have to do is change buildings. I don’t have to face my problem with brother or sister so and so. Never-mind sitting on the other side of the building, I can just drive across town. Well, not in Montana or South Dakota, but as long as I stay in the Bible Belt…
That's a tough question. Ideally, congregations would communicate better about those kinds of things. I actually knew of a situation where one church sent a member back to work things out, and it ended up going great.
Where does the New Testament tell us to gather “to worship”? Worship is daily as we sacrifice ourselves, desires etc et al
( Romans 12) a living sacrifice etc et al.
The assembly was for edification… build each other up to abide in Christ . God doesn’t need our one hour rituals to prove our worth or to give us a checkmark for doing all the prescribed things … ( the 5 acts of worship )… where did that even come from ???
Where is a “worship
Service” ever mentioned ?
Bottom line, God’s more interested in how we live our lives than a one hour a week check the boxes to “please Him”.
I run into this pedantry all the time. We can extrapolate it from the obvious implications of the NT text, and if that's not good enough, history backs up those extrapolations. The early church gathered to worship God together.
right on!!! I agree with everything you are saying!!!
- Yes, as we read in 1 Cor. 14, the assembly was for edification. we never see the word worship in that chapter.
- yes, I also feel it has become a 1 hour ritual and also wonder where this "5 acts of worship" came from - I hear it more and more and it's deeply troubling !!!
- yes, where is the phrase "worship service" in the Bible, I don't see it anywhere, but perhaps it's been passed down from Luther's "Gottesdienst" - God's service?
- yes, the one hour a week checkbox to please God is sad and unfortunately taught - I wrote an entire article about this on Romans 12:1 here : the Greek word Latreia is not a worship service or a weekly checkbox, it's a way of life!
https://aimeewilliams.substack.com/p/romans-121-worship-service-or-a-way?r=3ox17j
But in a response to the main topic what pleases God, consider these 3 passages that tell us what is pleasing to God:
1. Romans 12:1 I urge you to present your bodies as a living sacrifice, holy and pleasing to God; this is your logical *priestly service* (latreia).
2. Romans 14:17-18 anyone who *serves* (douleuō) Christ in righteousness, peace and joy in the Holy Spirit is pleasing to God
3. Hebrews 12:28 let us *serve* (latreuo) God well-pleasingly, with reverence and fear.
the RSV Bible of 1946 replaced the words for serving God in Romans 12:1 and Hebrews 12:28 with worship! so sad! and many modern translations copied that. So how could the first century church believe that? of course, they didn't, they couldn't! and the word worship doesn't exist in the Greek or Hebrew anyhow. So now we have to choose - are we going with pre-1946 Bible translations or post-1946 Bible translations??? if we really want to be like the 1st century church, I hope we choose wisely :)
Your sections, "Worship is all-emcompasing" when we look at Romans 12, we see many activities that are not bound to be done in a building or a special "service." We should daily give our bodies as a service to God, serving others that we meet, and even our neighbors in their time of need. Verses one and two start us thinking, Think as the good Samaritan did. The other two passing by were intent on not missing a religious service (think our church service). God had more good thoughts about him, instead of those two making sure they were not late for the scheduled service. The Samaritan was worshiping in spirit and in truth. He had the correct attitude or spirit in what he was doing, and he was doing what Jesus would commend us for doing. Read the last section of Matthew chapter 25 and see what our judgment would be if we just depended on our church service to get us into heaven.
Looking at Romans 12:1, 2, we see that sometimes what we do outside of the assembly is more important. Look also at those who walked by the needy being helped by the Samaritan. Those walking by were headed to the "church building," but all he was doing was helping the needy person and skipping the assembly. Also, those being judged in Matt. chapter 25. These are things we should be doing each day as we have the opportunity. We worship God by our whole body every day of the week when we obey Jesus' commands with a sweet spirit or attitude. John 4. Worship in a sweet spirit, or attitude, and doing my truth.