Thanks Jack. My 2 cents: we need to be TOGETHER a lot more than we are. I think we need far more one another fellowship time to really get to know one another more deeply. Our Sunday and Wednesday Bible classes, services often are not focused on loving one another but on Bible study and teaching. It takes lots of time together for real love to grow. I agree with your statement: we need a strategy that keeps us connected and educated.
Thanks Bro Jack. 23 years ago I came to Brookings. The church had an evening worship scheduled, but no one came. I suggested a a potluck w/ an early afternoon worship. And we even changed it to another Bible class. However most had family gatherings where they lived -- 15- 30 miles away. So we did away with the potluck/afternoon class. A young man I teach and mentor preached in a congregation for a time. He suggested a Bible class rather than a evening worship. The church zealously supported that change.
When I came to Brookings, one condition was no "class books." We would study only the book with no "13 week" limitations. And we plumb the depths. I make handouts for our study which we read in class. Each class begins with a brief review of what was considered in the previous week. Where congregations study "the book", the 13 week class constriction limits most studies to skipping stones across the water. One of my mentors (now deceased) who had been a preacher and an elder moved and was in another congregation. The elders asked him to teach 1 Corinthians in 13 weeks. We took 16 months. So he asked for more time. The elders gave him 26 weeks. By and large the church is anemic because of our tradition. Nuff said.
Really appreciate you opening up this conversation. It’s interesting how COVID created space for churches to re-examine practices we assumed were immovable. I like how you framed it with Mark 2:27—reminding us that the structure should serve the people, not the other way around.
I don’t think there’s a one-size-fits-all answer, but I agree—the healthiest setup is the one that keeps people truly connected, growing, and equipped. Thanks for sharing!
Opportunity to learn more is a good thing. Sunday evening services which began almost within my life's time due to WW2. In the 1700's Quakers instituted mid-week prayer meetings. I attend a Church observes these services I think that they should be considered either important or not important. Where I attend the elders will dismiss these services to placate desires of the congregation. For example if Christmas falls on a day where normally families have Christmas gatherings or New Year's services are dropped in favor of the holiday. I think it takes a lot of rationalizations to do this. Each Sunday is the Christians special day. Christmas and New Year's Day and instituted by and other holidays are of Man. One has become a Catholic observance.. I just think attendance should be mandatory or not at all.
Our congregation still meets on Sunday evening, more out of tradition than any thing. One of the elders is concerned that a visitor shows up and the doors are locked, it sets a bad impression. We are tucked away in a neighborhood not near any main thoroughfare, so we get very few evening visitors.
As far as the Lord Supper goes, I don’t believe we should offer it on Sunday night as how is 30 people watching one or two take the Lord’s Supper communing? I have never felt that we do the Lord’s Supper correctly because in the Bible it is always part of a fellowship meal.
Regardless of how many times the communion is offered, everyone should partake -- Show the lord's death until He comes. To whom do we show that? To each other. Not only is it a memorial of Jesus' crucifixion, it also shows our reverence and faith in Jesus and we "commune" with one another.
We worship with a second congregation on Sunday evenings (different than the one we work with Sunday morning as they have no evening worship), and many of the people that worship in the evening have already worshipped in the morning. We ALL take the communion together again, as we all want to fellowship with those who may have not been able to worship in the morning. It truly is a blessing to commune with Christ and his family twice for the day!
One of the congregations I am working with as an Evangelist with HomeMission has a Sunday afternoon service, but they do not offer communion during the second service. When I asked about why they do not, the answer I got was that "If someone cannot attend Sunday morning [because of work or some other legitimate reason], they know their own heart." That was a sad answer, IMO.
We have gone through similar changes and iterations as it seems many other congregations have. We also continued to have “something” on Sunday afternoons, as the eldership believes that it does create a stronger, better educated in the Truth, more accountable family. Which in turn keeps our faith and spiritual cup full for the week ahead.
Lately, we have focused this Spring and Summer on small groups in the home. Typically, 20-25 members in four groups we called “Salt and Light Groups”, and many other names in the past as it has changed in format. This can make for a big gathering at someone’s home, but we have found that many will plan outdoor activities along with the time of devotion and prayer. Sometimes groups meet at the park, sometimes on a member’s farm, with every group getting creative to meet their needs.
The goal is to meet, share time, thoughts on a common devotional topic, and of course food. We “check-in” every eight weeks or so with an all Salt and Light group at the building, discussing the topics and future ideas. Each week one of the four groups meet at the building for any visitors, which has also proven successful.
We know changes will need to be made for this fall and winter so we too are looking for what works and what the struggles have been.
Jack, Kelly Cherry here--pray all is well with the Wilkie's. About 10 years ago, our church moved from a 'second service' (after morning assembly and Bible class) and went to the following format (which we continue to use today): Period of 'Fellowship' with beverages and pastries (9:00am-9:25am); Worship (9:30-10:50); Bible Classes (1100-11:45).
Life Groups were added 4 years ago. They typically last from 60-90 minutes. Five meet after Bible Classes on Sunday; three meet @5pm on Sunday; one meets on Saturday's @ 10:30am; and two meet @ 5:30pm on Saturday.
we have a meal in a separate building annex with a full kitchen, and we all eat together then after the meal we have a devotional lesson and a song and prayer, and it works nicely
When we started back meeting on Sunday nights, the elders decided that it should not be "Sunday morning Part 2". Instead, we have a brief devotional together, about 15 minutes total, with a few songs, a short message, and an invitation. After that, we break up into discussion groups, which vary by month. One month, we will have age-based groups, and the next month we will have intergenerational groups where we draw a number and go to that group. The discussion questions are based on the Sunday morning sermon, and it gives a chance to dive deeper into the topic and also hear about how it has affected others. And for those who don't want to "talk about their feelings" as some hard-liners say, there is a class in the auditorium that is also based on the discussion questions, but without as much discussion. And then at the end, we all meet back together in the auditorium for a closing song and closing prayer.
Also, once a month, we will have a singing night instead of the discussion groups.
Even after doing this for 4 years, we still get questions of, "When are we going to go back to a traditional Sunday evening service?" But for those who participate, there is usually good discussion in the groups. I always feel like I benefit from it, and I think others do, too.
Our Sunday evening numbers are still down from where they were 5 to 10 years ago, but the numbers are starting to increase slightly. And in the last few weeks, we have had visitors from other congregations who do not meet at all on Sunday nights.
I like that idea a lot. In the traditional setup a person can come in and leave without ever saying a word. More discussion and turning the spotlight around to the group is a good idea.
One Sunday night a month we have a singing night with a meal. Rest are still regular services. I would like if we went to small groups personally. I think that one area that would help our congregation.
The more time we spend together, the better. Sunday evenings are a chance to learn more and a separate sermon is normally provided. And although the Lord's Supper is normally for the 3 or 4 who could not make the morning service, it is a chance to again reflect silently, and meditate, on what our Lord accomplished on the cross. It also provides more time to for us to fellowship and praise our God, and lift up our voice in additional songs. I wouldn't say it is a requirement for those who do not live close by, but another opportunity to worship our God for those who are able.
Thanks Jack. My 2 cents: we need to be TOGETHER a lot more than we are. I think we need far more one another fellowship time to really get to know one another more deeply. Our Sunday and Wednesday Bible classes, services often are not focused on loving one another but on Bible study and teaching. It takes lots of time together for real love to grow. I agree with your statement: we need a strategy that keeps us connected and educated.
Amen to that. Even if a church keeps the standard PM time, it’s worth rethinking how we use it.
Thanks Bro Jack. 23 years ago I came to Brookings. The church had an evening worship scheduled, but no one came. I suggested a a potluck w/ an early afternoon worship. And we even changed it to another Bible class. However most had family gatherings where they lived -- 15- 30 miles away. So we did away with the potluck/afternoon class. A young man I teach and mentor preached in a congregation for a time. He suggested a Bible class rather than a evening worship. The church zealously supported that change.
When I came to Brookings, one condition was no "class books." We would study only the book with no "13 week" limitations. And we plumb the depths. I make handouts for our study which we read in class. Each class begins with a brief review of what was considered in the previous week. Where congregations study "the book", the 13 week class constriction limits most studies to skipping stones across the water. One of my mentors (now deceased) who had been a preacher and an elder moved and was in another congregation. The elders asked him to teach 1 Corinthians in 13 weeks. We took 16 months. So he asked for more time. The elders gave him 26 weeks. By and large the church is anemic because of our tradition. Nuff said.
I sure hope some of those traditions go. You’re exactly right about the limitations of the quarter system.
Really appreciate you opening up this conversation. It’s interesting how COVID created space for churches to re-examine practices we assumed were immovable. I like how you framed it with Mark 2:27—reminding us that the structure should serve the people, not the other way around.
I don’t think there’s a one-size-fits-all answer, but I agree—the healthiest setup is the one that keeps people truly connected, growing, and equipped. Thanks for sharing!
Opportunity to learn more is a good thing. Sunday evening services which began almost within my life's time due to WW2. In the 1700's Quakers instituted mid-week prayer meetings. I attend a Church observes these services I think that they should be considered either important or not important. Where I attend the elders will dismiss these services to placate desires of the congregation. For example if Christmas falls on a day where normally families have Christmas gatherings or New Year's services are dropped in favor of the holiday. I think it takes a lot of rationalizations to do this. Each Sunday is the Christians special day. Christmas and New Year's Day and instituted by and other holidays are of Man. One has become a Catholic observance.. I just think attendance should be mandatory or not at all.
I agree, at the very least Sunday mornings should be non-negotiable.
Our congregation still meets on Sunday evening, more out of tradition than any thing. One of the elders is concerned that a visitor shows up and the doors are locked, it sets a bad impression. We are tucked away in a neighborhood not near any main thoroughfare, so we get very few evening visitors.
As far as the Lord Supper goes, I don’t believe we should offer it on Sunday night as how is 30 people watching one or two take the Lord’s Supper communing? I have never felt that we do the Lord’s Supper correctly because in the Bible it is always part of a fellowship meal.
I agree, it really doesn’t fit the idea of “communion.” That’s another thing we learned from Covid - solo “chip and sip” isn’t real communion.
Regardless of how many times the communion is offered, everyone should partake -- Show the lord's death until He comes. To whom do we show that? To each other. Not only is it a memorial of Jesus' crucifixion, it also shows our reverence and faith in Jesus and we "commune" with one another.
We worship with a second congregation on Sunday evenings (different than the one we work with Sunday morning as they have no evening worship), and many of the people that worship in the evening have already worshipped in the morning. We ALL take the communion together again, as we all want to fellowship with those who may have not been able to worship in the morning. It truly is a blessing to commune with Christ and his family twice for the day!
One of the congregations I am working with as an Evangelist with HomeMission has a Sunday afternoon service, but they do not offer communion during the second service. When I asked about why they do not, the answer I got was that "If someone cannot attend Sunday morning [because of work or some other legitimate reason], they know their own heart." That was a sad answer, IMO.
We have gone through similar changes and iterations as it seems many other congregations have. We also continued to have “something” on Sunday afternoons, as the eldership believes that it does create a stronger, better educated in the Truth, more accountable family. Which in turn keeps our faith and spiritual cup full for the week ahead.
Lately, we have focused this Spring and Summer on small groups in the home. Typically, 20-25 members in four groups we called “Salt and Light Groups”, and many other names in the past as it has changed in format. This can make for a big gathering at someone’s home, but we have found that many will plan outdoor activities along with the time of devotion and prayer. Sometimes groups meet at the park, sometimes on a member’s farm, with every group getting creative to meet their needs.
The goal is to meet, share time, thoughts on a common devotional topic, and of course food. We “check-in” every eight weeks or so with an all Salt and Light group at the building, discussing the topics and future ideas. Each week one of the four groups meet at the building for any visitors, which has also proven successful.
We know changes will need to be made for this fall and winter so we too are looking for what works and what the struggles have been.
Jack, Kelly Cherry here--pray all is well with the Wilkie's. About 10 years ago, our church moved from a 'second service' (after morning assembly and Bible class) and went to the following format (which we continue to use today): Period of 'Fellowship' with beverages and pastries (9:00am-9:25am); Worship (9:30-10:50); Bible Classes (1100-11:45).
Life Groups were added 4 years ago. They typically last from 60-90 minutes. Five meet after Bible Classes on Sunday; three meet @5pm on Sunday; one meets on Saturday's @ 10:30am; and two meet @ 5:30pm on Saturday.
The Saturday option is an interesting twist. I like that idea.
we have a meal in a separate building annex with a full kitchen, and we all eat together then after the meal we have a devotional lesson and a song and prayer, and it works nicely
When we started back meeting on Sunday nights, the elders decided that it should not be "Sunday morning Part 2". Instead, we have a brief devotional together, about 15 minutes total, with a few songs, a short message, and an invitation. After that, we break up into discussion groups, which vary by month. One month, we will have age-based groups, and the next month we will have intergenerational groups where we draw a number and go to that group. The discussion questions are based on the Sunday morning sermon, and it gives a chance to dive deeper into the topic and also hear about how it has affected others. And for those who don't want to "talk about their feelings" as some hard-liners say, there is a class in the auditorium that is also based on the discussion questions, but without as much discussion. And then at the end, we all meet back together in the auditorium for a closing song and closing prayer.
Also, once a month, we will have a singing night instead of the discussion groups.
Even after doing this for 4 years, we still get questions of, "When are we going to go back to a traditional Sunday evening service?" But for those who participate, there is usually good discussion in the groups. I always feel like I benefit from it, and I think others do, too.
Our Sunday evening numbers are still down from where they were 5 to 10 years ago, but the numbers are starting to increase slightly. And in the last few weeks, we have had visitors from other congregations who do not meet at all on Sunday nights.
I like that idea a lot. In the traditional setup a person can come in and leave without ever saying a word. More discussion and turning the spotlight around to the group is a good idea.
One Sunday night a month we have a singing night with a meal. Rest are still regular services. I would like if we went to small groups personally. I think that one area that would help our congregation.
The more time we spend together, the better. Sunday evenings are a chance to learn more and a separate sermon is normally provided. And although the Lord's Supper is normally for the 3 or 4 who could not make the morning service, it is a chance to again reflect silently, and meditate, on what our Lord accomplished on the cross. It also provides more time to for us to fellowship and praise our God, and lift up our voice in additional songs. I wouldn't say it is a requirement for those who do not live close by, but another opportunity to worship our God for those who are able.
What’s the purpose of Sunday night church, if the congregation already met on Sunday morning?
Usually the reasons are further fellowship and study, along with providing an opportunity for those who have to work Sunday mornings.
I get the opportunity for people who have to work Sunday morning…
But why not Monday night? Why not every night?
I’ve had people try to guilt me because I might not attend on Sunday or a Wednesday night.