"To be clear, I don’t believe there is anything wrong with paying ministers. It’s well-supported in the New Testament text and draws on strong Old Testament precedent."
Pure curiosity: Show me the passage that "well-support paying ministers. The only examples I can think of is elders who teach (1Ti 5:17 Let the elders who rule well be considered worthy of double honor, especially those who labor in preaching and teaching) and Paul's support for missions. MAYBE the apostles, but that is about it.
Preaching the gospel was done to non-believers. If we think we need to have preachers preaching the gospel to those gathered in Sundays, we have a serious problem. Last I read, the believers gathered to encourage one another (Not one to many) to love and good works, to build up one another (EACH of you has...).
There was no such thing as a "paid minister" as we practice that today. More than that, we now have SIXTEEN kinds of minister, from youth minister (making THEM responsible for the spiritual journey of OUR children) to worship minister.
Our "together times" are not based on the songs, prayer, Lord's Supper (now done as fast as possible to give the paid minister more time) sermon, giving, and our songs (Our "five acts of worship:). Interestingly enough, we have build an entire hermeneutic to find supporting passages fo that - and by that, ripping those out of their context. Giving? Never intended to pay ministers, insurance, pension plans, real estate buildings and maintenance, and o, wait, we have to use some of that for evangelizing too. Our missionary outreach has shrunk by almost 80% - because we have to pay the local ministery staff, and maintain real estate.
So, let's bring ministry back where it belongs: In the hands of the "amateur" rather than the "professional (Master's Degree preferred)." Let's bring our "worship" back to the amateur, rather than the professional worship minister. Let us, as parents, accept responsibility for the spiritual development of OUR children, rather than yet another professional. Let us, as members, accept the responsibility for the encouragement and building up of the church. And, more than anything, let elders be the shepherds they need to be, and not the business managers they turn out to be.
Other than that... I appreciate reading your writing!!!
1 Cor 6:9-12 and Galatians 6:6-8 is scriptural evidence enough for paying those who labor, whether they fulfill the role of a pastor/elder or a preacher/minister of the word.
That being said, I agree with the general idea of your comments.
I agree. Even though I absolutely love the preacher we have for our congregation, and I know you aren't talking about different people preaching per se, but even with our great preacher, I still want to hear what others have to say. In our weekly ladies Bible class, we have 4-5 different women who rotate each week, so they only teach once a month. so having more than just one person with this authority or responsibility, it's shared, and it's really helped our growth and in strengthening each other and learning from one another.
you are right, I feel like we rely on the preacher a little too much to do the studying and teaching because it's "their job".
I have been arguing that we shouldn't have paid evangelist as much as we should be having elders who are supported by the church to Shepard the flock. I have said that the church leadership in Acts set up deacons for the purpose of devoting their time and energy to leading and yet we have elders who are holding full time secular jobs and then we wonder why the job is lacking?
Having preached and worked a full time job for 15 years, I would tell anyone entertaining the thought - you must manage your time well! Your family deserves your time, and when you get paid to preach you must earn what you’re getting paid to do. It is no easy task for those who care for their family and who have a proper conscience toward getting paid from funds given specifically to the work of the Lord.
This is so important, especially for those of us with families as our primary responsibility is providing for our own (1 Timothy 5:8), even above preaching. But this is going to be hard for brethren (preachers and churches) who have never known or forgotten how this works. In the 20+ years I've been preaching, I only received "full support" for about 2.5 years (and even then, I had a little supplemental income from my side business). I'm happy for men who are supported well for preaching, but I'm afraid that's going to be less common in the future, and I hope these same men keep preaching, even without "full support" like the rest of us have been doing.
The great thing about a locally run church is it can be flexible to the needs of the members. I love the idea of having opportunity for other members of the congregation to step up to help. I see it as a means for people to grow. But absolutely support the right of preachers to hold other positions and streams of income, based on how the congregation is managed. Although the flock must be tended to and given opportunity for growth. If the congregation can rely on other members to teach and preach, or lead and not rely solely on the hired preacher for most things it would enable the preacher to have time to pursue other means of support which has other benefits besides the additional income. All things work together for good for those who love God according to His purpose.
I'm a pastor who is supported financially by my church. I also choose to work a second part time job. I'm just not wired to sit still. I really enjoy teaching part-time at the college level. Less than half of the motivation for the second job is financial. (I mean I'll take the money, I have the kids who are homeschooled)
I think we may be headed toward a two track sort of church culture. One where large churches (like mine) employ well trained leaders full-time and another where smaller churches have mostly part time staff.
I say that as someone who worked in smaller churches a while. In fact the one I'm at now was small with mostly part time staff 12 years ago. But with the way people give decreasing and the percentage of many small church budgets required for staff salary, I think bivocational ministry is a given for many of my students.
Great article Jack! I agree totally. I am semi-retired on SS .. and I am working with a small church in Washington. This group of wonderful seniors mostly, cannot afford a full-time preacher. I have been here 7 years now and we are growing. I think you are right on all counts. Thanks for your insightful writing.
"To be clear, I don’t believe there is anything wrong with paying ministers. It’s well-supported in the New Testament text and draws on strong Old Testament precedent."
Pure curiosity: Show me the passage that "well-support paying ministers. The only examples I can think of is elders who teach (1Ti 5:17 Let the elders who rule well be considered worthy of double honor, especially those who labor in preaching and teaching) and Paul's support for missions. MAYBE the apostles, but that is about it.
Preaching the gospel was done to non-believers. If we think we need to have preachers preaching the gospel to those gathered in Sundays, we have a serious problem. Last I read, the believers gathered to encourage one another (Not one to many) to love and good works, to build up one another (EACH of you has...).
There was no such thing as a "paid minister" as we practice that today. More than that, we now have SIXTEEN kinds of minister, from youth minister (making THEM responsible for the spiritual journey of OUR children) to worship minister.
Our "together times" are not based on the songs, prayer, Lord's Supper (now done as fast as possible to give the paid minister more time) sermon, giving, and our songs (Our "five acts of worship:). Interestingly enough, we have build an entire hermeneutic to find supporting passages fo that - and by that, ripping those out of their context. Giving? Never intended to pay ministers, insurance, pension plans, real estate buildings and maintenance, and o, wait, we have to use some of that for evangelizing too. Our missionary outreach has shrunk by almost 80% - because we have to pay the local ministery staff, and maintain real estate.
So, let's bring ministry back where it belongs: In the hands of the "amateur" rather than the "professional (Master's Degree preferred)." Let's bring our "worship" back to the amateur, rather than the professional worship minister. Let us, as parents, accept responsibility for the spiritual development of OUR children, rather than yet another professional. Let us, as members, accept the responsibility for the encouragement and building up of the church. And, more than anything, let elders be the shepherds they need to be, and not the business managers they turn out to be.
Other than that... I appreciate reading your writing!!!
1 Cor 6:9-12 and Galatians 6:6-8 is scriptural evidence enough for paying those who labor, whether they fulfill the role of a pastor/elder or a preacher/minister of the word.
That being said, I agree with the general idea of your comments.
I agree. Even though I absolutely love the preacher we have for our congregation, and I know you aren't talking about different people preaching per se, but even with our great preacher, I still want to hear what others have to say. In our weekly ladies Bible class, we have 4-5 different women who rotate each week, so they only teach once a month. so having more than just one person with this authority or responsibility, it's shared, and it's really helped our growth and in strengthening each other and learning from one another.
you are right, I feel like we rely on the preacher a little too much to do the studying and teaching because it's "their job".
I have been arguing that we shouldn't have paid evangelist as much as we should be having elders who are supported by the church to Shepard the flock. I have said that the church leadership in Acts set up deacons for the purpose of devoting their time and energy to leading and yet we have elders who are holding full time secular jobs and then we wonder why the job is lacking?
Having preached and worked a full time job for 15 years, I would tell anyone entertaining the thought - you must manage your time well! Your family deserves your time, and when you get paid to preach you must earn what you’re getting paid to do. It is no easy task for those who care for their family and who have a proper conscience toward getting paid from funds given specifically to the work of the Lord.
This is so important, especially for those of us with families as our primary responsibility is providing for our own (1 Timothy 5:8), even above preaching. But this is going to be hard for brethren (preachers and churches) who have never known or forgotten how this works. In the 20+ years I've been preaching, I only received "full support" for about 2.5 years (and even then, I had a little supplemental income from my side business). I'm happy for men who are supported well for preaching, but I'm afraid that's going to be less common in the future, and I hope these same men keep preaching, even without "full support" like the rest of us have been doing.
The great thing about a locally run church is it can be flexible to the needs of the members. I love the idea of having opportunity for other members of the congregation to step up to help. I see it as a means for people to grow. But absolutely support the right of preachers to hold other positions and streams of income, based on how the congregation is managed. Although the flock must be tended to and given opportunity for growth. If the congregation can rely on other members to teach and preach, or lead and not rely solely on the hired preacher for most things it would enable the preacher to have time to pursue other means of support which has other benefits besides the additional income. All things work together for good for those who love God according to His purpose.
I'm a pastor who is supported financially by my church. I also choose to work a second part time job. I'm just not wired to sit still. I really enjoy teaching part-time at the college level. Less than half of the motivation for the second job is financial. (I mean I'll take the money, I have the kids who are homeschooled)
I think we may be headed toward a two track sort of church culture. One where large churches (like mine) employ well trained leaders full-time and another where smaller churches have mostly part time staff.
I say that as someone who worked in smaller churches a while. In fact the one I'm at now was small with mostly part time staff 12 years ago. But with the way people give decreasing and the percentage of many small church budgets required for staff salary, I think bivocational ministry is a given for many of my students.
Great article Jack! I agree totally. I am semi-retired on SS .. and I am working with a small church in Washington. This group of wonderful seniors mostly, cannot afford a full-time preacher. I have been here 7 years now and we are growing. I think you are right on all counts. Thanks for your insightful writing.
New wine skins!
But in the same vein, I disagree that two incomes are necessary.
Two incomes are necessary to live a two-income lifestyle. Here too we need to reexamine our assumptions.