You stated it perfectly. I think, for me, it was not even the usual cadre of evil online that reacted exactly how all of us knew they would react. No, for me it was when Representative Lauren Boebert called for a prayer for Charlie in the House and the other side literally shouted her down. These are not people with differing ideas on the same team. This is something different. We all know it.
I think most of us have continued hoping that we would somehow win the argument with debate and better ideas. But Charlie's assassination and that moment in the House should show us that we are not playing by the same rules. They are not interested in civil discourse.
Those who shouted down Rep Boebert were not the ignorant foot soldiers of social media. They are literally the leaders of the opposition. Their heartless opposition to praying for a someone who was just politically assassinated is the physical face of a spiritual evil most Christians do not want to admit exists. I feel we are, indeed, at a turning point.
Agreed, very well written. I've been learning more about who he was from the news since yesterday, his faith and humility are exemplary to us as fellow servants of God - And he gave the glory and credit to God for the results of his hard work too. Truly a tragic loss, thank you for your guidance and encouragement during this difficult time.
I didn't follow him much before either, and seeing clips the last couple of days I wish I had. He eloquently talked about Christ far more than I ever realized.
I agree completely with your sentiment. I believe this case is different. I believe an example must be set forth against the devils democrats and liberal judges who have encouraged this kind of thing. I think a public execution is in order. There are too many senseless murders happening to be mere coincidence.
Thank you for writing this, I always appreciate your insights. Until this last Wednesday, I'd barely heard of Charlie Kirk or his Turning Point USA organization. After having read many things since, I've come to believe he was the very type of man I have been praying for.
He was friendly but bold, not fiery; he was honest, truthful and did not attack his opposition but challenged them to open debate. He trusted and represented the Lord Christ and His truth.
In these, he was akin to the ancient saints, cut from the mold of David, Daniel, Elijah, Mordeci, or John the Baptist. We need more like this, of those Hebrews says the world is not worthy.
I pray again that God would raise up more, many more who stand in faith against evil and cry aloud, proclaiming the name of Jesus: Behold, the man.
I’ve been scrolling X to listen to and read what people are saying, and I have been thankful to see how many are turning to God, away from complacency and a party that promotes violence as a response to speech they dislike. Many have decided to return to church, to God, to conservative values. I hope and pray they follow through and find Jesus. Stephen’s martyrdom was not in vain. Paul’s life was affected and eventually transformed. The church was scattered to the further reaches of the world, where God had intended them to go all along. May Charlie’s (life and) death have a profoundly powerful impact for the spread of God’s reign here and around the world.
Which democrat president has promised to put those who disagreed with him in prison? Remember, 'lock her up...?"
Which democrat enthusiastically responded to the violent attack on mr Pelosi?
Which democrat president encouraged his followers to "fight like hell,' which encouragement led to many hurt police officers, and indirectly caused the death of several officers?
I won't waste my time or yours trying to debate the items you listed in your comments; except to say TDS is an actual ailment. When one is infected with this all bets are off and therapy may be the only solution. You bring up the same old tired arguments heard daily from MSM, and no amount of truth can reach you. Since my experience has shown these things to be true; where do we go from here?
I really appreciate your efforts to help Christians deal with our culture and society that we find ourselves living in, including this tragic event. Often, we need guidance from others to help us process what is happening and how to respond, so thank you. I do agree that we can be angry and perhaps we should, although I was saddened, not angry myself, and I agree that we need to see justice done and show Christ to the world in how we conduct ourselves. With this in mind, I do have a few thoughts to share.
You asked the questions, perhaps rhetorically, “What is the right supposed to do now? Send another friendly debater out into the crosshairs?”. To which I would respond, Yes! This is what happened in the first century when, Stephen, a bold spokesman for God was stoned to death for what he believed and spoke. The church scattered and spoke about Jesus everywhere they went; it spread the message, not killed it (Acts 6:8-8:3). So too, killing Charlie silenced one voice of reason, not killed it as many thousands of young people since have inquired about starting a chapter of Turning Point, USA. Perhaps this is part of what happens next. We do need more reasonableness.
I’m sorry you are tired of bothsideism. I live there every day in all aspects of my life, from serving as an elder, to doing marriage counseling, to teaching natural resource classes in a local college, to working in a scientific community and beyond. If I don’t take the time to look thoughtfully and respectfully to both sides of an argument, disagreement, or an scientific advancement, I run the risk of missing something important or making an improper, perhaps biased judgement. I apply this to my political and even religious life as well as the aforementioned areas, for two reasons. First, as Proverbs 18:17 says “The first to present his case seems right, till another comes forward and questions him. (NIV). It reminds me that just because the first person to speak sounds good and right doesn’t mean it is the whole story. In the case of Charlie Kirk, yes, you can find those who cheered his death, but I also very easily found several politicians and know of others on the left who condemned it and all political violence. Your wording came across as rather dismissive to someone like me who wants to get all the facts before making a judgement. I found the following sources that show both sides hold similar views about political violence and have engaged in it.
What’s Driving Political Violence in America?
In the Aftermath of Assassinations, Let's Show That Americans Overwhelmingly Disapprove of Political Violence
Citizens
The second reason I listen to both sides is because that is how I want to be treated (Matthew 7:12, Luke 6:31). By my listening respectfully to others, they have been willing to listen to me. Paul seemed to understand this in Acts 17:22-23 when he takes time to observe their objects of worship and understand where they stood and talked about God from there. Charlie did this as well. We need to do the same, even those we disagree with.
I don’t believe it is fair to imply that everyone on the left is an enemy. Just as in Acts 6:9 that some members opposed Stephen, not all Jews did. In the same way, there are those on the left who are very actively opposing Christians and we need to stand up to them and call out evil but is not true of everyone one the left. The people in my circle of life includes many who are left leaning to one degree or another and do not consider me an enemy nor do I consider them an enemy and some who are Christians. In the same way that we on the right do not want to be painted with the same brush of promoting violence, neither should we paint everyone on the left with the same brush.
Let us be like the Christians of Acts 4:23-30, who prayed for boldness to speak the word of God in the face of opposition showing the love of God in what we say and do and how we do it. (I Peter 3:15-16).
Again, thank you for helping us process this event and I pray my thoughts are helpful.
Did you share the same sentiments when mr Pelosi was viciously attacked?
When Democrats were killed in Minnesota?
Did you react when Mr Kirk refer to people on the other side of the political spectre evil?
When trump called out for violence during his speeches?
When he encouraged the crowd repeatedly on January 6th to "fight"?
When he called them to "fight like hell?"
When he pardoned those who committed violent offenses on January 6th?
If not, your credibility MUST be questioned, Jack.
I used to be a registered member of the GOP. I worked hard for people who ran for office, locally, county, and State levels. But when our State GOP voted for trump, and thereby nullified our platform which called for people of high personal integrity, I had to walk away.
No, I did not join the "party of evil."
I argued against abortion as president of our local Right to Life chapter. But argued as hard against vilifying those who thought differently. And called for the same anger for those who thought killing abortionists was a good thing, even something God desired and approved!
I argued against some of the Obama Care program. But argued as hard against my Republican friends when they started talking "Death tribunals!"
I have seen US politics become more and more verbally violent, much more so since 2015. And now we have a president who lies, cheats, insults, lies some more... Why do Christians not speak out against those lies? His encouragements to commit violence? His extra-judicial killing of foreigners on the open seas - without any legal basis or evicence! Surely by know even the most ardent supporter should know he cannot be trusted!
Mr Kirk's killing was needless. It was wrong - no matter how you view him as a person or as a presenter of his theory. But calls for revenge should never, NEVER be heard from the mouths of those claiming to be Christians.
It's very hard to untangle all the misunderstandings of those who watch the news and earnestly believe it. As Covid taught us, all they do is lie. The Pelosi story and the Minnesota story are both sad, but also extremely murky in the details. But you'll notice, you can't find tens of thousands of people on the right celebrating them, either. And there weren't prominent people on the right calling for it beforehand. That's a big difference.
For another example, I have no issue with a US President targeting drug runners trying to smuggle lethal substances into our country. Presidents left and right have been bombing people around the world for decades - at least in this case the target is people who actually are connected to harming our country. But the media didn't get you worked up about those bombings, so you focus on the one they do tell you to get mad about.
One would prefer evidence of said drug running. Remember Vance's "Haitians are stealing your dogs and cats to eat them?" And then justifying lying for the good of the cause... Remember the violence, including bomb threats from Vance's followers??
Remember the apartment complexes overrun by Venezuelan gangs which was another lie, this one by trump?
You do not need to tell me about bommings all over the world. I lived through the Rote Armee fraction and their bombings of nightclubs, killing US soldiers in Germany. I remember the killing of Israeli athletes in Munich during the Olympics.
No extradition without due process is justified. Not lies are justifiable (no matter what Vance said). FROM EITHER SIDE, FOR ANY REASON! I called out Obama on his fabrications (Still have the clippings to prove that).
What I get angry about is this inventing of violence where no violence has taken place. I am tired of the more and more apparant attitude of "Let's do it to them before they do it to us." I am tired a putting someone as dangerous as RF Kennedy in charge of the national healthcare. (It's September - where is his proof for what is responsible for autism???)
I am tired of being lied to about tariffs and who pays those. I am tired of seeing farmers lose their generational farms. I am tired of hearing promises made without any intent of ever keeping them. I am tired of the worship of an evil man - and how you are vilified when you speak out against that man.
Tell me: What good was accomplished during his first term? Tell me: What good has he done this term? Other than fattening his and his friends bank accounts, bragging on tv about how his buddies made a boat load of money after his tariff announcement, followed by a lowering of stock/share prices, where they bought millions worth!
No president is without issues. Even President Carter had his issues. But he was by far the most caring president the nation has had in a long time. he claimed his faith - he lived his faith - till the day he died. Whether I agreed with is political persuasion or not, he was a good man.
Let's take the Venezuelan gang apartment complex one for an example. Do you know that last December, 16 Venezuelan TdA members were arrested for home invasion and kidnapping at the same complex? And that the management company had a deal to place Venezuelan migrants in their properties, leading to a huge crime spike? And that the infamous Edge complex has been ordered shut down by law for "criminal nuisance?"
Yet, when you Google it, all the top links STILL insist it's a hoax. None of them add the extremely relevant new information that contradicts their headlines.
So, why do YOU think it's a hoax? Because they told you it is, and you believe them.
"The Edge of Lowry apartments has been in the national spotlight this year because of a video that went viral showing armed men entering one of the units in the complex, sparking claims that the Venezuelan gang Tren de Aragua (TdA) had "taken over" the complex."
"A national spotlight on Colorado’s gang activity is raising concerns that newcomers are bringing new violence. But experts Denver7 spoke with recently say the Denver metro's gang history is mostly homegrown. Watch our 360 in-depth report in the video player below."
"The company that owns Edge of Lowry — CBZ Management — claims gang members "...prevented them from making repairs..." at their Aurora properties, saying it was too dangerous for their employees to be on site."
Code enforcement and inspection records dating back to 2020, however, show NUMEROUS VIOLATIONS PRIOR AN INFLUX of Venezuelan immigrants in the Denver metro, including mice infestations, ceiling damage, and dozens of unlawful vehicles parked in the parking lot." --IN OTHER WORDS, the company lied about the shoddy shape of the real estate.
Which is a different story than what was heard from both Vance and trump. Yes, there was an issue. No, the issue was not that the gang had "taken over the entire complexes..."
In other words: Both Vance and trump made things up as they went along. I do believe that qualifies as "lying." And in the best of views, it was "providing purposely embellishments of reality."
So yes, I read the truth of what was going on (At least I assume that is why you sent the link(s) - and it was not what Vance and trump made up!
Your second link almost made me laugh - if it wasn't so sad. America First legal is run by Stephen Miller, the bigot who is the driving force behind the current government actions against immigrants, be they legal or illegal. So, forgive me if I decide not to accept that as a credible source.
What gets me, is how we, as Christians, can support such open hatred against foreigners, be they legal or illegal. I grew up in an immigration country. I went to school with kids from at least 7 nationalities. Their parents were hard-working people, who could not work in their own fields (doctor, lawyer, teacher, architect etc., so worked as dishwashers, garbage collectors, street cleaners etc.
I see the same thing here. When I moved to the US, I needed a job to provide for my family. I applied at all sorts of places, and even started an application at one of the slaughter houses in our area. And I am a legal immigrant, too.
Yesterday I was listening to the radio, and the conversation was about trumps mother - a Scottish immgrant. His wives - immigrants. His youngest son: The child of an immigrant, a non-citizen, BTW. Will he take Birthright citizenship away from Barron, too? Were he consistent, he would. But he will not. Because Barron is a white Anglosaxon, born into wealth.
The America First legal link just shows government documents and communications.
You don't care about that, though. You just want confirmation.
I can't really have conversations with people who exist in the media-created alternate reality. Anyone who believes a word they say after the Covid years isn't interested in the truth.
The America First Legal is an organization let by the one pushing discrimination. An organization anti Immigration, be it legal or illegal (Which I oppose, too, even as an immigrant myself!).
Even people who are not trump fans admit the fact that the anti-virus shots became available so soon was an amazing accomplishment. It saved 1,000's of lives. So I am not taking that away from trump.
But the animosity popularised by him during his rallies etc., his easily proven lies, his abuse of women, his tax fraud, his fake university, his robbing his own charity foundation, his hateful speech, his derogatory remarks about wounded soldiers and allies, his "I can make the war in Ukraine end in one day" yet being servile to Putin and North Korea...
I have lived in the US under Clinton, Bush, Obama, and Biden. If you do not recognize the difference between those and Trump...
None of the others have been so hateful about opponents. So dismissive of people who sacrificed for this country, so focussed on self aggrandizement. So divisive towards allies (Remember: NATO soldiers died for THIS country after 9/11 - without a demand for anything).
What I believe we need to do to stop this evil is pick a day in the near future when ALL Christians everywhere fast and get down on our knees and beg God to forgive us for our worldliness. 2 Chronicles 7:14 - "if my people, who are called by my name, will humble themselves and pray and seek my face and turn from their wicked ways, then I will hear from heaven and will forgive their sin and will heal their land."
I became a Repub;ican the same day I became a citizen - in 2006. I was very active locally, and was part of the Platform writing committee for a number of years. Obviously, I had nothing to do with Clinton. But yes, I did write, as an immigrant when I had an issue with Clinton. And before you go there, I still have copies of at least 18 letters to the editor of the local newspaper dealinf with President Obama.
But you are ignoring my point. Is it only worthy of comments when bad things happen to Republican candidates? I did not hear anything about lowered flags for the killing in Minnesota. Special moment of honoring. Condemnation about the horrific attack on mr. Pelosi.
The moment modern Republicans will deal with those attacks in the same way as when a Republican is attacked, I will shout it from the rooftops. Violence has no political flavor.
No, of course not. We think it's terrible that the people in Minnesota were killed and Pelosi was attacked. We never celebrated it or implied they deserved it. And, neither we nor you even know the kind of people who did it. Those are incredibly murky stories that demonstrate nothing.
Kirk and Trump being shot mid-speech is a whole different story.
'I don’t know what happens next, but it feels like a corner has been turned. It already was feeling that way as the internet reacted in horror to the Charlotte transit stabbing of Iryna Zaruska. Then, the Kirk assassination took it to a whole other level. Something has to change, and I’m praying it does.'
Where was the reaction when politicians in Minneapolis were killed?
When ms Pelosi's husband was brutally attacked?
When it became clear that discontented Trump supporters were the actual/planned shooters?
I an anything but a Democrat. I was part of the county GOP Central Committee for years. Until trump showed up.
Because for the life of me, I could not understand how we could a man without any moral standing could become the desired GOP candidate.
As a Christian who takes his faith seriously I can not fathom how those who claim to be Christians can support the current president. He uses his position for self enrichment. He uses his power to commit acts against all moral standards.
I feel deeply sorry for the death of mr Kirk. But the presumption of guilt is immoral and unjust.
There is a big difference between politicians and pundits. Kirk just does what people like me do - he was just way, way, way better and more successful at it.
"Because for the life of me, I could not understand how we could a man without any moral standing could become the desired GOP candidate." Did you feel the same way about Bill Clinton?
I suggest you check your facts. Earlier in the session, before news of the shooting, a request was made to pray for the recent victims of a school shooting. Republican leadership denied that. The dissonant is what should be condemned.
You stated it perfectly. I think, for me, it was not even the usual cadre of evil online that reacted exactly how all of us knew they would react. No, for me it was when Representative Lauren Boebert called for a prayer for Charlie in the House and the other side literally shouted her down. These are not people with differing ideas on the same team. This is something different. We all know it.
I think most of us have continued hoping that we would somehow win the argument with debate and better ideas. But Charlie's assassination and that moment in the House should show us that we are not playing by the same rules. They are not interested in civil discourse.
Those who shouted down Rep Boebert were not the ignorant foot soldiers of social media. They are literally the leaders of the opposition. Their heartless opposition to praying for a someone who was just politically assassinated is the physical face of a spiritual evil most Christians do not want to admit exists. I feel we are, indeed, at a turning point.
That footage was wild to see. It really does go all the way to the top.
Agreed, very well written. I've been learning more about who he was from the news since yesterday, his faith and humility are exemplary to us as fellow servants of God - And he gave the glory and credit to God for the results of his hard work too. Truly a tragic loss, thank you for your guidance and encouragement during this difficult time.
I didn't follow him much before either, and seeing clips the last couple of days I wish I had. He eloquently talked about Christ far more than I ever realized.
I agree completely with your sentiment. I believe this case is different. I believe an example must be set forth against the devils democrats and liberal judges who have encouraged this kind of thing. I think a public execution is in order. There are too many senseless murders happening to be mere coincidence.
Strong punishment is the only way, I agree
Timely thoughts.
Very well said…
Thank you Jack, I love the work that you do.
Thanks, Gary!
Thank you for writing this, I always appreciate your insights. Until this last Wednesday, I'd barely heard of Charlie Kirk or his Turning Point USA organization. After having read many things since, I've come to believe he was the very type of man I have been praying for.
He was friendly but bold, not fiery; he was honest, truthful and did not attack his opposition but challenged them to open debate. He trusted and represented the Lord Christ and His truth.
In these, he was akin to the ancient saints, cut from the mold of David, Daniel, Elijah, Mordeci, or John the Baptist. We need more like this, of those Hebrews says the world is not worthy.
I pray again that God would raise up more, many more who stand in faith against evil and cry aloud, proclaiming the name of Jesus: Behold, the man.
I’ve been scrolling X to listen to and read what people are saying, and I have been thankful to see how many are turning to God, away from complacency and a party that promotes violence as a response to speech they dislike. Many have decided to return to church, to God, to conservative values. I hope and pray they follow through and find Jesus. Stephen’s martyrdom was not in vain. Paul’s life was affected and eventually transformed. The church was scattered to the further reaches of the world, where God had intended them to go all along. May Charlie’s (life and) death have a profoundly powerful impact for the spread of God’s reign here and around the world.
I am sorry. But the ONLY party which promote violence is the current president! Are you not reading/listening?
I could not disagree more.
Which democrat president has promised to put those who disagreed with him in prison? Remember, 'lock her up...?"
Which democrat enthusiastically responded to the violent attack on mr Pelosi?
Which democrat president encouraged his followers to "fight like hell,' which encouragement led to many hurt police officers, and indirectly caused the death of several officers?
uhhhhh which one actually ended up getting arrested?
I won't waste my time or yours trying to debate the items you listed in your comments; except to say TDS is an actual ailment. When one is infected with this all bets are off and therapy may be the only solution. You bring up the same old tired arguments heard daily from MSM, and no amount of truth can reach you. Since my experience has shown these things to be true; where do we go from here?
I really appreciate your efforts to help Christians deal with our culture and society that we find ourselves living in, including this tragic event. Often, we need guidance from others to help us process what is happening and how to respond, so thank you. I do agree that we can be angry and perhaps we should, although I was saddened, not angry myself, and I agree that we need to see justice done and show Christ to the world in how we conduct ourselves. With this in mind, I do have a few thoughts to share.
You asked the questions, perhaps rhetorically, “What is the right supposed to do now? Send another friendly debater out into the crosshairs?”. To which I would respond, Yes! This is what happened in the first century when, Stephen, a bold spokesman for God was stoned to death for what he believed and spoke. The church scattered and spoke about Jesus everywhere they went; it spread the message, not killed it (Acts 6:8-8:3). So too, killing Charlie silenced one voice of reason, not killed it as many thousands of young people since have inquired about starting a chapter of Turning Point, USA. Perhaps this is part of what happens next. We do need more reasonableness.
I’m sorry you are tired of bothsideism. I live there every day in all aspects of my life, from serving as an elder, to doing marriage counseling, to teaching natural resource classes in a local college, to working in a scientific community and beyond. If I don’t take the time to look thoughtfully and respectfully to both sides of an argument, disagreement, or an scientific advancement, I run the risk of missing something important or making an improper, perhaps biased judgement. I apply this to my political and even religious life as well as the aforementioned areas, for two reasons. First, as Proverbs 18:17 says “The first to present his case seems right, till another comes forward and questions him. (NIV). It reminds me that just because the first person to speak sounds good and right doesn’t mean it is the whole story. In the case of Charlie Kirk, yes, you can find those who cheered his death, but I also very easily found several politicians and know of others on the left who condemned it and all political violence. Your wording came across as rather dismissive to someone like me who wants to get all the facts before making a judgement. I found the following sources that show both sides hold similar views about political violence and have engaged in it.
What’s Driving Political Violence in America?
In the Aftermath of Assassinations, Let's Show That Americans Overwhelmingly Disapprove of Political Violence
Citizens
The second reason I listen to both sides is because that is how I want to be treated (Matthew 7:12, Luke 6:31). By my listening respectfully to others, they have been willing to listen to me. Paul seemed to understand this in Acts 17:22-23 when he takes time to observe their objects of worship and understand where they stood and talked about God from there. Charlie did this as well. We need to do the same, even those we disagree with.
I don’t believe it is fair to imply that everyone on the left is an enemy. Just as in Acts 6:9 that some members opposed Stephen, not all Jews did. In the same way, there are those on the left who are very actively opposing Christians and we need to stand up to them and call out evil but is not true of everyone one the left. The people in my circle of life includes many who are left leaning to one degree or another and do not consider me an enemy nor do I consider them an enemy and some who are Christians. In the same way that we on the right do not want to be painted with the same brush of promoting violence, neither should we paint everyone on the left with the same brush.
Let us be like the Christians of Acts 4:23-30, who prayed for boldness to speak the word of God in the face of opposition showing the love of God in what we say and do and how we do it. (I Peter 3:15-16).
Again, thank you for helping us process this event and I pray my thoughts are helpful.
Thank you for writing with clarity and in truth.
Did you share the same sentiments when mr Pelosi was viciously attacked?
When Democrats were killed in Minnesota?
Did you react when Mr Kirk refer to people on the other side of the political spectre evil?
When trump called out for violence during his speeches?
When he encouraged the crowd repeatedly on January 6th to "fight"?
When he called them to "fight like hell?"
When he pardoned those who committed violent offenses on January 6th?
If not, your credibility MUST be questioned, Jack.
I used to be a registered member of the GOP. I worked hard for people who ran for office, locally, county, and State levels. But when our State GOP voted for trump, and thereby nullified our platform which called for people of high personal integrity, I had to walk away.
No, I did not join the "party of evil."
I argued against abortion as president of our local Right to Life chapter. But argued as hard against vilifying those who thought differently. And called for the same anger for those who thought killing abortionists was a good thing, even something God desired and approved!
I argued against some of the Obama Care program. But argued as hard against my Republican friends when they started talking "Death tribunals!"
I have seen US politics become more and more verbally violent, much more so since 2015. And now we have a president who lies, cheats, insults, lies some more... Why do Christians not speak out against those lies? His encouragements to commit violence? His extra-judicial killing of foreigners on the open seas - without any legal basis or evicence! Surely by know even the most ardent supporter should know he cannot be trusted!
Mr Kirk's killing was needless. It was wrong - no matter how you view him as a person or as a presenter of his theory. But calls for revenge should never, NEVER be heard from the mouths of those claiming to be Christians.
It's very hard to untangle all the misunderstandings of those who watch the news and earnestly believe it. As Covid taught us, all they do is lie. The Pelosi story and the Minnesota story are both sad, but also extremely murky in the details. But you'll notice, you can't find tens of thousands of people on the right celebrating them, either. And there weren't prominent people on the right calling for it beforehand. That's a big difference.
For another example, I have no issue with a US President targeting drug runners trying to smuggle lethal substances into our country. Presidents left and right have been bombing people around the world for decades - at least in this case the target is people who actually are connected to harming our country. But the media didn't get you worked up about those bombings, so you focus on the one they do tell you to get mad about.
One would prefer evidence of said drug running. Remember Vance's "Haitians are stealing your dogs and cats to eat them?" And then justifying lying for the good of the cause... Remember the violence, including bomb threats from Vance's followers??
Remember the apartment complexes overrun by Venezuelan gangs which was another lie, this one by trump?
You do not need to tell me about bommings all over the world. I lived through the Rote Armee fraction and their bombings of nightclubs, killing US soldiers in Germany. I remember the killing of Israeli athletes in Munich during the Olympics.
No extradition without due process is justified. Not lies are justifiable (no matter what Vance said). FROM EITHER SIDE, FOR ANY REASON! I called out Obama on his fabrications (Still have the clippings to prove that).
What I get angry about is this inventing of violence where no violence has taken place. I am tired of the more and more apparant attitude of "Let's do it to them before they do it to us." I am tired a putting someone as dangerous as RF Kennedy in charge of the national healthcare. (It's September - where is his proof for what is responsible for autism???)
I am tired of being lied to about tariffs and who pays those. I am tired of seeing farmers lose their generational farms. I am tired of hearing promises made without any intent of ever keeping them. I am tired of the worship of an evil man - and how you are vilified when you speak out against that man.
Tell me: What good was accomplished during his first term? Tell me: What good has he done this term? Other than fattening his and his friends bank accounts, bragging on tv about how his buddies made a boat load of money after his tariff announcement, followed by a lowering of stock/share prices, where they bought millions worth!
No president is without issues. Even President Carter had his issues. But he was by far the most caring president the nation has had in a long time. he claimed his faith - he lived his faith - till the day he died. Whether I agreed with is political persuasion or not, he was a good man.
Let's take the Venezuelan gang apartment complex one for an example. Do you know that last December, 16 Venezuelan TdA members were arrested for home invasion and kidnapping at the same complex? And that the management company had a deal to place Venezuelan migrants in their properties, leading to a huge crime spike? And that the infamous Edge complex has been ordered shut down by law for "criminal nuisance?"
Yet, when you Google it, all the top links STILL insist it's a hoax. None of them add the extremely relevant new information that contradicts their headlines.
So, why do YOU think it's a hoax? Because they told you it is, and you believe them.
You have to stop trusting what you see.
Sources:
https://www.denver7.com/news/crime/16-people-taken-into-custody-at-edge-of-lowry-apartments-suspected-of-being-tren-de-aragua-members-ice-says
https://aflegal.org/press-release/america-first-legal-releases-documents-revealing-colorado-officials-downplayed-threat-posed-by-violent-venezuelan-gang-tren-de-aragua-shielding-dangerous-criminals-and-endangering-u-s-citizens/
"The Edge of Lowry apartments has been in the national spotlight this year because of a video that went viral showing armed men entering one of the units in the complex, sparking claims that the Venezuelan gang Tren de Aragua (TdA) had "taken over" the complex."
"A national spotlight on Colorado’s gang activity is raising concerns that newcomers are bringing new violence. But experts Denver7 spoke with recently say the Denver metro's gang history is mostly homegrown. Watch our 360 in-depth report in the video player below."
"The company that owns Edge of Lowry — CBZ Management — claims gang members "...prevented them from making repairs..." at their Aurora properties, saying it was too dangerous for their employees to be on site."
Code enforcement and inspection records dating back to 2020, however, show NUMEROUS VIOLATIONS PRIOR AN INFLUX of Venezuelan immigrants in the Denver metro, including mice infestations, ceiling damage, and dozens of unlawful vehicles parked in the parking lot." --IN OTHER WORDS, the company lied about the shoddy shape of the real estate.
Which is a different story than what was heard from both Vance and trump. Yes, there was an issue. No, the issue was not that the gang had "taken over the entire complexes..."
In other words: Both Vance and trump made things up as they went along. I do believe that qualifies as "lying." And in the best of views, it was "providing purposely embellishments of reality."
So yes, I read the truth of what was going on (At least I assume that is why you sent the link(s) - and it was not what Vance and trump made up!
Your second link almost made me laugh - if it wasn't so sad. America First legal is run by Stephen Miller, the bigot who is the driving force behind the current government actions against immigrants, be they legal or illegal. So, forgive me if I decide not to accept that as a credible source.
What gets me, is how we, as Christians, can support such open hatred against foreigners, be they legal or illegal. I grew up in an immigration country. I went to school with kids from at least 7 nationalities. Their parents were hard-working people, who could not work in their own fields (doctor, lawyer, teacher, architect etc., so worked as dishwashers, garbage collectors, street cleaners etc.
I see the same thing here. When I moved to the US, I needed a job to provide for my family. I applied at all sorts of places, and even started an application at one of the slaughter houses in our area. And I am a legal immigrant, too.
Yesterday I was listening to the radio, and the conversation was about trumps mother - a Scottish immgrant. His wives - immigrants. His youngest son: The child of an immigrant, a non-citizen, BTW. Will he take Birthright citizenship away from Barron, too? Were he consistent, he would. But he will not. Because Barron is a white Anglosaxon, born into wealth.
The America First legal link just shows government documents and communications.
You don't care about that, though. You just want confirmation.
I can't really have conversations with people who exist in the media-created alternate reality. Anyone who believes a word they say after the Covid years isn't interested in the truth.
The America First Legal is an organization let by the one pushing discrimination. An organization anti Immigration, be it legal or illegal (Which I oppose, too, even as an immigrant myself!).
Even people who are not trump fans admit the fact that the anti-virus shots became available so soon was an amazing accomplishment. It saved 1,000's of lives. So I am not taking that away from trump.
But the animosity popularised by him during his rallies etc., his easily proven lies, his abuse of women, his tax fraud, his fake university, his robbing his own charity foundation, his hateful speech, his derogatory remarks about wounded soldiers and allies, his "I can make the war in Ukraine end in one day" yet being servile to Putin and North Korea...
I have lived in the US under Clinton, Bush, Obama, and Biden. If you do not recognize the difference between those and Trump...
None of the others have been so hateful about opponents. So dismissive of people who sacrificed for this country, so focussed on self aggrandizement. So divisive towards allies (Remember: NATO soldiers died for THIS country after 9/11 - without a demand for anything).
What I believe we need to do to stop this evil is pick a day in the near future when ALL Christians everywhere fast and get down on our knees and beg God to forgive us for our worldliness. 2 Chronicles 7:14 - "if my people, who are called by my name, will humble themselves and pray and seek my face and turn from their wicked ways, then I will hear from heaven and will forgive their sin and will heal their land."
Thank you. Jack. Once more, you are saying the things that I feel need most to be said, and I appreciate you for it, brother.
I became a Repub;ican the same day I became a citizen - in 2006. I was very active locally, and was part of the Platform writing committee for a number of years. Obviously, I had nothing to do with Clinton. But yes, I did write, as an immigrant when I had an issue with Clinton. And before you go there, I still have copies of at least 18 letters to the editor of the local newspaper dealinf with President Obama.
But you are ignoring my point. Is it only worthy of comments when bad things happen to Republican candidates? I did not hear anything about lowered flags for the killing in Minnesota. Special moment of honoring. Condemnation about the horrific attack on mr. Pelosi.
The moment modern Republicans will deal with those attacks in the same way as when a Republican is attacked, I will shout it from the rooftops. Violence has no political flavor.
No, of course not. We think it's terrible that the people in Minnesota were killed and Pelosi was attacked. We never celebrated it or implied they deserved it. And, neither we nor you even know the kind of people who did it. Those are incredibly murky stories that demonstrate nothing.
Kirk and Trump being shot mid-speech is a whole different story.
Are they different because you happen to agree with their point of view? Because they are Republicans?
Killing a parent with their children as witnesses is about as ugly as one can get.
'I don’t know what happens next, but it feels like a corner has been turned. It already was feeling that way as the internet reacted in horror to the Charlotte transit stabbing of Iryna Zaruska. Then, the Kirk assassination took it to a whole other level. Something has to change, and I’m praying it does.'
Where was the reaction when politicians in Minneapolis were killed?
When ms Pelosi's husband was brutally attacked?
When it became clear that discontented Trump supporters were the actual/planned shooters?
I an anything but a Democrat. I was part of the county GOP Central Committee for years. Until trump showed up.
Because for the life of me, I could not understand how we could a man without any moral standing could become the desired GOP candidate.
As a Christian who takes his faith seriously I can not fathom how those who claim to be Christians can support the current president. He uses his position for self enrichment. He uses his power to commit acts against all moral standards.
I feel deeply sorry for the death of mr Kirk. But the presumption of guilt is immoral and unjust.
There is a big difference between politicians and pundits. Kirk just does what people like me do - he was just way, way, way better and more successful at it.
Sorry, but no matter which way you look at it, Mr. Kirk was a politician!
"Because for the life of me, I could not understand how we could a man without any moral standing could become the desired GOP candidate." Did you feel the same way about Bill Clinton?
I suggest you check your facts. Earlier in the session, before news of the shooting, a request was made to pray for the recent victims of a school shooting. Republican leadership denied that. The dissonant is what should be condemned.